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Lets talk about the Bagavadgita...
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Hoshil
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 1:13 pm    Post subject: Lets talk about the Bagavadgita... Reply with quote

Jai Shree Krishna to all the Vaishnavs.

What was the purpose of the Bagavadgita?

I must confess I haven't read anything on the Bagavadgita and have only watched Mahabharat (!), but what I have been exposed to I found very interesting.

My opinion will only touch the surface of the meaning of Bagavadgita, so I call upon the experts to shed more light on this.
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Vasant Punjabi
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shri Krishna,

Hoshilbhai,

Bhawad Gita is a very vast subjest.

The Gita is a conversation between Lord Shri Krishna and His (Sakha)dear friend Arjuna. At the last moment before entering a battle between realtions, brothers and friends, the great warrior Arjuna begins to wonder: Why should he fight? What is the meaning of his life? Where is he going after death?What are actions ? What will be its fruits? etc

In response, Shri Krishna brings His friend from perplexity to spiritual enlightenment.

It consists of GYAN/KARMA/BHAKTI Yogas (Marga).

Above is just a very short version to your reply. It is a song sung by no other than the Supreme God Himself.
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Sital
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shree Krishna

I have heard that we as Vallabhi Vaisnavs can read the Bhagvat Gita but must only take the relevant information. Can someone please enlighten which Bhagvat Gita we should read and which information is not meant for souls on the path of grace?

JSK
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Pushtidas
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shree Krishna

Sitalji, we as Vallabhi Vaishnavs do imbibe in Bhagvat Geeta and I, to my knowledge have not yet come to any stanza which depicts anything inferior or averse to Pushtimarga. In fact Shree Mahaprabhuji is found quoting verses from Bhagvat Geetaji and has also used Krishna's Vani on occasions when Aapshree wanted to make a point.

I have come across on few of my research on Shree Mahaprabhuji and his honors and realization for Shreemad Bhagvad Geeta. Shree Vallabh also had quoted Shree Ved Vyasji on Geeta:
Quote:
Geeta Sugeeta Kartaviyaa kimanayah shastravitaraiyah |
Ya swayam padmanabhshiya mukhpadmadvinihasruta ||


Shree Gita is good to nurture as Sugita (Manifestation of divine Gita). So one should personify the study of Gitaji and the embeded meaning within its boundary with that intimate and will experience every colour of bhava in its boundary. This should be one's main duty (kartaviya). The Gita is from the mukhakamal (lotus mouth) of Shree Padmanabh Vishnu Bhagvan himself, and other shastra does not fill that status in any form.
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Inaxi
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shree Krishna

Sitalji I once had an opportunity to listen vachnamrut by Shree Indira Betiji (JIJI) on Shreemad Gita. It was an eye opener and we now have her vivachan (the summary) in writing. Aapshree (indira betiji) has not put her style explanation of this lovely granth.

If you can get hold of her version of Gitaji, you will see that she has got all the slokas covered and nothing has been edited out. Unfortunately this version is in Gujarati.

Hope this information will help.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shree Krishna

Thankyou, Pusthidasji for the clarification and thankyou for the added information Inaxiji. I will learn gujerati first and then try and get hold of a copy written by Indira Betiji.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shree Krishna,
Sorry fellow vaishnavs to move off of the current topic, but just a quik question for sitalji. I am facinated with everyones pushti signatures....would you be so kind as to explain the meaning of yours??
Thank you Very Happy
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shree Krishna,

Thankyou for your clarifications... but I still get confused,I have been told that the Geeta teaches us how to live life and the Bhagwat teaches us how to die basically by focusing on Thakorji. So it makes sense when you explain that the Geeta is a part of pushti marg as it was spoken by Krishna.However I have also heard that because the Geeta was spoken by Krishna after the age of 11 it is not really pushti marg? Does the Geeta focus on Maryada rather than Bhakti? The Bhagwat is stated to be the cream of the Vedas because it contains the leelas of Krishnas youth and the Gopis, are we not supposed to live our lives concentrating on that bhav? so is the Bhagwat not also about living life? and thus why the Geeta and not just Bhagwat? Please HELP!?
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Hoshil
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JSK lovely Vaishnavs,

I appreciate all your input with this. I myself share similar confusion with Trushnaji, the Bagavadgita was spoken by Shri Krishna after the age of 11 years and 52 days and therefore post the 'era' of pushtimarg followings.

However...I find it so imbibing. For me it shows how we should live out our lives for example, one must do their duty without thinking of reward. Or how about Shri Krishna telling Arjun to fight that war even though it meant killing his brothers, his elders or killing thousands of innocent soliders. Its been a while since I have covered any related material and would really enjoy to go into this further...from the begining of course.

But where do we start? Which books are good to read?

Jai Shree Krishna
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shree Krishna Vaishnavs Very Happy ,
I am inclined to agree with both Hoshilji and Trushnaji but as imbing and interesting as Bagavadgita is, i find the most imbing stories are of Thakorji when he is younger. I remeber once asking Pushtidasji on a friday satsang the reason for praying to Thakorji under 11 years and 52 days. It was at this age where we hear about his leelas with gopi's and he was most naughty(in the most cheeky and imbibing cute way of course!! Wink ) Pushtmarg is the path of grace. I feel its basis is love, and once Thakorji passed the age off 11 years and 52 days he was involved in more politics rather than the young playful child like lifestyle, which was full of laughs, playful pranks and bags full of love. Not to say that Thakorji isnt described as that in the Bagavadgita but isnt is more Muryada?? and more about duty? than love? I have the same questions as Trushnaji and Hoshilji, it would be most helpful if a kind vaishnav could clear up the confusion?? Many thanks!!! Very Happy
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Hoshil
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shree Krishna

The Bagavadgita not only guides us through our lives but also provides us with the knowledge to reach salvation. I'm really hoping to gain further knowledge through my little post which I am very sure it will turn into a very large post!!!

Please please please dear Vaishnavs...enlighten me!
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shree Krishna

Thank you for such an enthusiasm in this subject. I have looked at the points raised in this forum and I am really glad that I am doing satsang with a vaishnavs at your calibre.

Lets look at some of the points in Shreemad Bhagvad Gita. It explains within its cotext, that although a jivatma indulges in Grahasthashram, that is in married social structure, he/she still can imbibe in Krishna and is able to remain unattached to materialistic way.

Now this small "tiyag" (process of being unattached) is also considered in Pushtimarg. When a a devotee to be decides to join Pushtimarg, he/she has to go through a "baptism" ceremony, this is where a devotee is initiated into Pushtimarg. This process is known as Brahmasambandh. If we study all the stanzas in this Brahmasambandh's mantra, it spells the idea of "tyag" and "samarpan" that is to be unattached and also to do a complete surrendership. In this sloka we surrender "Daar Agar" and putrapta and so on.

We say to Lord that we surrender all my belongings worldly and spiritually , including wealth, children and wife etc. So this way we have indirectly followed what Krishna has advised Arjun regarding to unattach oneself from material world.

In Gitaji we also learn about seven elements in which one can acquire God and His grace. First five elements have the characteristics of Gyan, that is knowledge.

The Knowledge is also vital. Knowledge of seeing Krishna and recognising Him is an essential elements. Knowing his likes and dislikes, knowing how to serve our Master Shree Krshna is primary goal for every vaishnavs and this is a pushti teachings.

The sixth element is describing the stage in which a character of Tyag is described. Which is really a "hilaag" avastha, that is, when in love with Krishna, the mood of love embraces union and seperation. The movement between union and seperation with Krishna supports, nourishes and heightens the ras. In this, a foundation of Pushtimarg which, also depicts in Gitaji.

The seventh element is a stage in which that hilaag avastha has surpassed the immature hilaag and now moved to viprayog, that is a divine condition of seperation. In this condition the inner experience of Shree Krishna after seperation and it translates as seperation, but the meaning is really more extensive. Seperation is not dependent on manifest reality.

So indirectly Gitaji has a lot to offer.

I agree that Pushtimarg seva prakar, that is the service to Krishna, is set on 11 years and 52 days and Gitaji has been attained well beyond that boundary, but then Purans, PAVITRA MANDAN, Garga Sahita and many more granths (tetimonial and religious books) are beyond the boundary, but are directly and indirectly inter twined in Pushtimarg.

So in short there is somthing in Gitaji which will carry a lot of weight in Pushtimarg. I am sure many vaishnavs will com back on this.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shri Krishna,

A very nice flow and depth and very enjoyable.

if i maybe allowed to make a "small" comment... please excuse anything that sounds out of place, and please don't let it add to any confusions. These are all just personal thoughts, put together from various sources, and are simply meant as "food for thought"
- please feel free to correct any misunderstandings and add to the flow..

- Personally, i don't feel it is fair to "tie down" Thakorji or anything He says or anything about Him to His age of 11 yrs and so many days, etc... He is forever a child as He never grows old... He only modifies His appearance of His body as and when He pleases.... example comes to mind, of the baby Krishna who floats in the ocean, on the Pipal Leaf sucking His toe.... (anyway we digress)

- Furthermore, although Gitaji was spoken by Shri Krishna on the Battlefield at a certain age, this does not mean that what He spoke, i.e., the tattva gyan has any limit to age. Also, following from the same, Everything He said/Sang in the Gitaji is aimed at people at various levels of their spiritual progress... and to distinguish them, we have the three main categories of Pushti, Pravah and Maryada... Gnanis and Karmis, etc..

- The same applies to Bhagvatji. This maha puran does not only contain Thakorji's leelas until he was under 11 yrs but it contains everything, the sumum bonum of and beyond all the "cream of the cream" of all the vedas, upanishads, etc.. so again here we cannot tie it down to just Thakorji's and "pushti marg" flow of thinking, as even Bhagvatji is aimed at all the categories of people mentioned above. So, people, in general will extract and use whatever knowledge, they are entitled to (according to adhikar), at various stages in their lives. (Classic example, Mahaprabhuji advises us not to use Bhagvatji for monetary gains or personal uses, however, we see people everywhere doing just that from time immemorial ... ) As Bhagvatji contains various means of obtaining certain fruits in life.. These fruits include, ways of making money, obtaining siddhis, etc.. and in our case the desired fruit is that of infusing bhakti in us and bringing us closer to Thakorji. So, different people will choose different solutions according to their level of entitlement.

- With regards to Krishna advising Arjun on the battlefield to perform his righteous duty to fight and "kill"
This is again in Gitaji where Thakorji tells Arjun, not to worry about killing them as He (Thakorji) had already killed them - simply by glancing over them He had already done that, meaning He had already reduced their age and that they were (as good as) dead anyway (also to know that this was all a leela and everyone there was merely play-acting their roles), and all Arjun had to do was to play his part and take care of the bodies.

So in that respect Arjun did not do any "killing" anyway. He was obeying orders of His Lord and Friend and in doing so He was performing His duty (the duty of a Kshatriya), without any expectations for payment in return and this means He was free from any action of sinful acts/doshes, thus leaving Him completely pure.

If He were to choose, not to do any killing, it means He was not doing his duty by punishing the wrong-doers and for this he would take on the dosh of not doing is duty/karm. Ofcourse, in pushtimarg view point, it also means he would be disobeying his Lord/Friend (although their relationship was that of friends, Arjun knew well who Krishna was and always addressed Him with humbleness and respect).
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Hoshil
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shree Krishna,

Wow may I first say what wonderful replies we are receiving, thank you Pushtidasji and Jagdishji.

Just to add to Jagdishji's comments...Arjun was told to do what is best for society. Killing his brothers, uncles etc etc etc was for the good as it meant Hastinapur would inherit a rightful king, Yudishtur (excuse my spellings). Arjun was also told to detach himself from happiness and sorrow (correct me if I am wrong) and only think of selfless deeds. My question is, in the society we live in at present is it possible to detach ourselves from happiness and sorry? And is this thinking in line with Pushtimarg?

'Remember whatever is good for society is good for yourselves, as we are part of society and society is not a part of us'

This isn't an accurate qoute, but it is on the lines. Another question springs to mind, to what extreme do we take the above and in other postings? By the way I don't mean killing criminals because it is good for society and that the one who does kill will be pure becuase they were just doing their duty (!). Wink
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shri Krishna,

In our case, those are all secondary issues ...

The primary concern is doing seva of Thakorji - and by serving the society/country with nishtha and with nishkaam one is doing that.

Realistically speaking no one is anyone's relative, so uncles, brothers, etc.. are materialistic relationships which are temporary anyway.
Whereas, what is being taught is that we are all souls (jeevas) and a soul never dies ... so again looking at it from a transcendental view, no killing was being done...

In pushtimarg detachment comes automatically once attachment is made firm in Shri Thakorji... we don't have to (and are advised) not to force ourselves to try and go for things such as sanyas, etc..

Please refer to the Sanyas Nirnaya granth by Shri Mahaprabhuji
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