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What an avtaar?
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Inaxi
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:33 pm    Post subject: What an avtaar? Reply with quote

Jai Shree Krishna

Shree Bahgvatji was creation of Shree Vyasji and Shree Sukdevji made it eccessible and famous.

So what is the avtar of these two mahayogidhan? Well in plain english the lovely personalities are actually a form of other swaroop, so what are their form?

Wow..I have really done it in Pushtidasji's style, isn't my question lovely Embarassed ok it deserves also lovely answer so don't blush but put your answer.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shree Krishna

Wow inaxiji the question is no longer pushtidas style now it is also inaxi style Wink

well i'll have a go... sorry if im wrong (probably am!). As far as i am aware an avtar means a descendant from the spiritual sky. Shree Vyasji's swaroop is the literary incarnation of Krishna... n Shree Sukdevji is his son but thats all i know? Another lovely vaishnav im sure can give a better answer??
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shree Krishna

Well Trushnaji a good attempt. But I feel that you have half attempted the question and half correct. Shall we wait for other vaishnavs to answer?

By the way, well come to Krishnaseva.com and thanks for your support.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shree Krishna

Pushtidasji Krishna Seva is a wonderful site, THANK YOU for the satsung!
Your right it is only half answered...Is it true that Sukhdevji was a parrot that heard amarkatha from Shivji then he incarnated as Sukdevji.. then after he incarnated as the manav avtar, Saptrushis? Please could a Vaishnav explain and expand on this for me?

Also if i am right that Vedvyas is a literary incarnation of Krishna then why didnt he speak the Srimad Bhagwat to Raja Pariskit instead of Sukhdevji Confused ?
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shri Krishna,

Long pending so I will try attempt this on trial basis so please do not laugh if I am wrong as I want to learn from my mistakes or how will I learn?

Well Sukdevji had reached that stage where he saw only atma present in every living being he did not have any material desires but had only one goal love for Lord Shri Krishna.

While Shri Ved Vyas ji had become little materialistic and even loved his son.

So hearing katha from Sukhdevji would be with no desires for anything just pure amrit flowing from his mouth.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shree Krishna,

Thankyou for your reply Vasant Bhai but im sorry i still dont understand that if Vyasji is an avataar of Shree Krishna then how can he become materialistic? is loving your son considered materialistic? i thought that we had to love Gods people before we could understand what love is or how to love him? your description of "pure amrit flowing from his mouth" does make me want to go look for him though...Very Happy oh dear a few thousand years too late!
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shri Krishna,

Trushnabhen I am trying to answer as much as I know as this is a very difficult question to understand but more bhavik vaishnavs will definitely but more light to it.

Here is what I understand and have to ellborate now which usually our ardent vaihnav Inaxibhen style you should say

If we understand how Shukadeva Gosvami Ji was born we will understand
why this particular incident happened and it's significance.

Hope you remember that

Shukadeva Gosvami did not want to come out of the womb of his mother
as he thought that the moment he comes out he will get attached to the
material world. Then Vedavyaas Ji had to call Shri Krishna Himself to ask Shri
Krishna to convince Shukadeva Gosvaami to come out of the womb giving
Shukadeva Gosvami the assurance that he will never be effected by the
external energy (Mahaamaaya) of Shri Krishna.

Then we also know that immediately after coming out of the womb
Shukadeva Gosvaami left his parents and started wandering naked here
and there. This clearly indicates that he is a Paramahamsa who had no
attachment to this material world whatsoever. This fact was so evident
from the appearance of Shukadeva Gosvaami when he passed by the kunds that the ladies taking bath with no clothes on their body did not cover their bodies.

In the case of Vedavyaasa Ji, he was playing the role of a
householder, who is at least a little bit attached, but we know as a
fact that he was also not attached at all, but just playing that role.
The ladies saw that role being played by Vedavyaasa Ji and hence covered
themselves.

By this incident we should not misunderstand the position of
Vedvyaasji . This incident is just used to glorify the position of Srila
Shukadeva Gosvami and to clearly indicate that he was the perfect
person for speaking Srimad-Bhaagavtam, the perfect Purana.

Trushnabhen please give me your input now.

Hence Shri Sukhdev was the perfect person to say the Bhagwatam and this was the reason I said earlier "pure amrit flowing from his mouth."

The Gods/Demi Gods themselves were willing to give numerous precious gifts and treasures for that amrit.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shree Krishna Vasant Bhai, thank you! yes that does explain alot, basically my understanding from what you have said is that it is a lila and that Vyasji is not inferior to Sukhdevji but rather playing his part, so to speak? is this correct?

Yes i have heard before that he didn't leave his mothers womb till he was 12?

If you could is it possible for you to explain to me who the sapt rushis are? and what is meant by a manav avatar?
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shree Krishna

Well done Vasantji you did very well, and now you know how I have to deal with the inquisitive mind of Trushnaji. She will push you to a limit to get the answer and this she demostrates very well in our satsang on fridays. I am very proud of her.

Well Trushnaji, Sukhdevji, as you suggested, is recarnation and form of Shivji, and the prasang (epic) which was very well posted, was a symbolic excoriated its censure way.

Although Vyasji is Krishna's Avtaar, he unlike Krishna, was Grahasthi (domesticated) and orchestrated the score of material world in his life span on earth and was only ordain to research and not preaching order. Although on few occassion he seemed to appear as a preachure, but not in its true form. So this way he was not a form who could be seen as oration. Hence, was not the candidate to have art of orator, that is, the skill in persuasive public speaking.

Where as Sukhdevji had the art of oration and the way he used his skill in persuasive public addressing was described as oratorio, that is his style and the speech and the grip on public address was like a musical composition as a soloists, but an ability to sound like chorus and orchestrated his narration of religious theme that made Shreemad Bhagwatji a music to the years and it becomes the amrut vani, that is, the divine necter and the voice tuned to capture one's soul into divine service of surrendership and still feel independent.

Sukhdevji,as described by Vasantji in his renders, was unattached to Krishna Maya and was full of, or rather more opulent in Bhagwatji's abundant source of opus ingredient of Katha, that is, rendering of this scriptures or divine book in that opt style.

So all these qualities made him the worthy KATHAKAR (the one who recites the holy granth,books)
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shree Krishna,

Pushtidasji your making me blush Embarassed its only because your satsungs are wonderful and soo inspiring that they make me inquisitive and want to find/get closer to Krishna. Vasantbhai thank you for your help! Pushtidasji i quote you "capture one's soul into divine service of surrendership and still feel independent"...sorry but new question? how can one be completley surrendered but independant? i thought being surrendered meant not being independant but completely dependent?
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JAI SHREE KRISHNA PYARA VAISHNAVS

hmmmmm very good question Trushnaji.....i think that is one of the most difficult things to understand! how is it exactly that we completely surrender to Thakorji??? Yes our souls and lives are in Thakorji's hands....but we have choices! and are able to change our destiny through bhugwan nu nam and wise choices. But how is it that we completely surrender?? Again, i also was under the understaning that we were to love on buthal so that when we get to koonj, we know what it means to love??? i know the materialistic world drags us away from our spiritual paths, and test our faith. Trushnaji in answer to your question i think surrendership to Thakorji is an individual thing, and no it isnt bad or materialistic to love your sister, brother, mother, son etc... but as long as you see the thakorji in them and that your doing everything you do in the name of krishna! I think it is this that all Vaishnavs strive to be able to do on buthal. Its like the challenge...bring Shree krishna in everyn aspect of life??? These are just my thoughts but PLEASEEEEEEEE if there is a formula to surrendership to Thakorji.....we want to know????? and agian how are we dependant yet independant at the same time??? Confused oooooooo im a lil lost....

JAI SHREE KRISHNA!!! Very Happy
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shri Krishna,

Please excuse if this is a going off the track or is out of context.....

Shri KrishnaAshrayah teaches us that we are (and should be) totally dependant on Him and His Grace. We also learn from it that He is our final, ultimate and the one and only Shelter.

- Understanding and realising that the freedom and independance that we 'seem' to have is only because of His Kindness. Hence, even more of a reason to be His servant and have that Daas bhaav in all our dealings with Him.
- The freedom that He has granted us is so that we are able to deal with the world (be it mundane, material or transcendental - its all the same and its all His). However, while maintaining our business in the worldly things, if we are putting Him first in every dealing, then automatically everything is surrendered to Him and hence any result (fruit) of our activities in these dealings are also coming from Him and by His Grace.

- Even when treating Him as a child, baal-bhaav, or as a friend, etc... we are only thinking of His happiness.

- Regardless of which bhaav we worship Him with or the bhaav He has Graced us with, in serving Him through any of those bhaavs, the Daas bhaav should be embedded inside.

A very brief summary of what PPG 108 Shri Sharad Bawa says in his vachnamrut on Shri Krishnashraya that Shri Thakorji treats us the way we treat Him... If we have total surrender in Him then He looks after us accordingly, and if we have partial surrender then He reciprocates accordingly. However, he also 'expects' us to behave according to the "references" through which we are approaching Him. Since, in our case (pushtimarg) we are approaching Him through Shri Mahaparbhuji and His siddhants, the reference we are giving, by taking/accepting Brahmsambandh, is that of Shri Mahaprabhuji.

Note - by references we mean, that if you are approaching a big person, say for example, the King or the Queen, etc., surely, they would not want to meet you if they don't know you or have not been introduced, etc., In our case our introduction to Shri Thakorji is being done by Shri Mahaprabhuji so we are giving Him as our reference.

Also by, doing this, i.e., going against Shri Mahaprabhuji's siddhants, we are letting Shri Thakorji, Shri Mahaprabhuji, and our bhavna towards Shri Thakorji and our Maarg down.

Granted that because we are approaching him through Mahaprabhuji, he will never let go of our hand and eventually we would be dragged back to Him ...
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shree Krishna

Vivak Dhairiya Ashray, is also one of the teachings of Shree mahaprabhuji.

Vivak=Wisdom
Dhairiya = Perserverance
Ashray = Refuge.

The above are three main devotional ingredients that create and maintain the firm mood of devotion. In this granth we have practical guidance, full of wise advice on how to live in the world, deal with any obstructions and maintain rich and colourful devotional life.

Amazingly, in a direct way, Shree Mahaprabhuji in this work also addresses the higher devotional states that flourish between the Beloved and His loved ones.

As Shree Jagdishji rightly, pointed the reverend bhava and teachuings set in Krushna Ashraya, we do refer to Shree Mahaprabhuji in surrendership through Brahmasambandh Mantra, also known as Gadhiya Mantra, and in this "Refuge in Krishna" (Krushna Ashray), Shree Vallabh's opening remark is:

sarvamargesu nastesu kalau ca (prounounced as CHA) khaladharmini
pasandaprachure loke krsna eva gatirmama || 1 ||


Aapshree is very clearly saying that all proper path have been destroyed in this age of extreme struggle. The practitioners of religion (dhrama) have adopted wicked and hypocracy is also rampant. So in this condition Krishna alone is my refuge.

We been invaded by barbarians and become an abode full of impurity where we are disturbed because of suffering of pure hearted ones,the Holy Ganga is also surrounded by wicked people, the presiding demi god and goddesses (devas) have hidden themselves.All Mantras, fasts and yoga and the inner meanings and devas become concealed and in this state Krishna is my refuge.

So the surrendership is important so we do not totally become void of wisdom, patience, devotion and other virtues.

We pray to Krishna, who is full of all powers and fulfills the devotee's (bhakta's) desire in every way and in every circumstances. He uplift those who take His shelter.

So from above it is very clear that we on surrendership become independent from worldly attachments, sin and become humble, hence I said:

"..capture one's soul into divine service of surrendership and still feel independent..."
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jai sri krishna

beautiful satsang, i am learning from this. thanks a lot for your help dear vaishnavs. keep it up. see you. Smile
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shri Krishna,

Thank you for the rescue Pushtidasji and Jagdishbhai you both are doing great and now for the pending question By Trushnabhen

Jai Shree Krishna Vasant Bhai, thank you! yes that does explain alot, basically my understanding from what you have said is that it is a lila and that Vyasji is not inferior to Sukhdevji but rather playing his part, so to speak? is this correct?

Yes i have heard before that he didn't leave his mothers womb till he was 12?


Sukadeva Gosvämé, the son of Vyäsadeva, is described in great detail in the Brahma-vaivarta Puräna. There it is said that Vyäsadeva maintained the daughter of Jäbäli as his wife whose name was Vatika,and that they performed penances together for many years, he placed his seed in her womb. The child remained in the womb of his mother for twelve years, and when the father asked the son to come out, the son replied that he would not come out unless he were completely liberated from the influence of mäyä. Vyäsadeva then assured the child that he would not be influenced by mäyä, but the child did not believe his father, for the father was still attached to his wife and children.

Shri Sukhdevji did not wanted to be influenced by the power of the illusory energy of Visnu (Visnu-maya). When he received assurance from Shri Krisna that he would not be distracted, he took birth and was named Sukadeva. Later he became attracted to the poetry describing Krisna lila and understood that this attraction could not be the influence of Visnu-maya. He then studied Srimad Bhagavatam carefully under the guidance of Vyasa. It is said that he spoke the Bhagavata to Raja Pariksit at the young age of sixteen.
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