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August 5th is Pavitra Ekadashi
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Prashant
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Joined: 11 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Jai Shree Gokulesh Vasantji,
These are indeed very nice questions. This can open pandora's box.....

Let us look into this by creating another scenario. I have all the money in the world and I can purchase and eat all good food in the world. But I am unhealthy and I cannot digest any food. Doctor has advised me to live on liquid food. I do not prefer to live on juice as I am a big fan of food. It does not satisfy me. I have a friend who is very healthy and poor. He comes to me and tells me that I want to eat all this 56 bhog that you have. I am poor and I cannot afford this. You can afford this but you cannot eat this. So lets do one thing, I will eat all this food and the taste that I get will be transfered to you. Or you eat this nice food and since you cannot digest this, I will digest this for you, so you get the taste and I get the satisfaction.

Niether of these is possible. One has to digest his own food. No one can digest the food for other. So my answer to your first question is, the poor friend who goes to vraj cannot transfer any of his merits to the friend. On the other hand the friend who has funded the money will get merit for funding but not for visiting the vraj.

The answer for the second question remains the same. Reason - explained above. Let me give you another example for the second question. You must be knowing the story of Robinhood. He used to steal money from the rich and distribute to the poor. Does the rich people whose money was stolen gets the credit of helping poor. No ways. Atleast I don't think so. The son in the second case is Robinhood and the father is the rich guy whose money is distributed to the poor.
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Vasant Punjabi
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Jai Shri Gokulesh Prashantji,

Well there is similar varta in 252 vaishnav about nishkanchan vaishnav who promised to give all merits to the rich person but on enquiring he found out that he was also entitled to some fruit (Phal) of the trip and that all MERIT cannot be transferred at the same time the promise being kept intact.

The seva that he did, including yamuna paan and adhramrut paan, plus darshans that he did with his own eyes and body that belongs to him permanently that cannot be transfered to the rich vaishnav under any circumstances.

But all the brahmins he fed including all donations he gave to the temples and charities with the money that MERIT goes to the rich vaishnav.

Hope that clears the query you had in mind.
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Prashant
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 3:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Jai Shree Gokulesh Vasantji,
Thanks for the answer. But there is a fundamental difference between the two stories you narrated. In the story of 252 vaishnav, the donor gets partial merit (merit for dontating) because he had wishfully given the money to his friend to donate and had funded his trip. So his hard earned money is willingly used in good direction. So in a way no fal is transfered. It belonged to him only. Wether the poor friend wants to transfer the merit or not it would have automatically debited to the account of owner (rich guy) as it belonged to him and not the poor guy.

But in the story of Ekadashi people are performing fast and transfering the merits to the king. Again, here we are talking about transfering and in the previous case its not transfered but it belonged to him.
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Vasant Punjabi
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai JAi Shri Gokulesh,

Prashantji the donor in 252 varta actually wanted the full Merit but as explained all could not be transfered as he was not the one who did Yamuna paan, or Adramrut paan nor did he do any seva with his body so he was not entiltled for those Merits though he paid for all the expenses.

Nor lets take a new example another varta which you must have read.

There was one Bhagwadia vaishnav Kunbi Patel who lived in a small village in Gujarat in 252 vartas (Varta number 90)who used to go for satsangs and kirtans to another bhagwadia's place in nearby big town so one day he took the wrong road by mistake and in the nite he had to pass thru a lake surrounded by trees and there happened to be a Demon or Raksas (PRET) living there who was very hungry and wanted to eat him.

So the vaishnav requested the Demon to give him some time so he could attend the Ekadashi vrat satsang as it was Ekadashi vrat day and promised that while on his return he will surrender his body to him so he can eat and fulfill his desire. The Raksas thought for a moment and then agreed. Well the vaishnav went, attented the satsang took maximum bhagwad naam and then came back to the Demon and requested he be eaten as per his promise.

Now the Demon changed his mind since he knew that he could not kill God's devotee he turned smart and said that he will sacrifice by not eating him on one condition that if you give me all the MERIT of the Ekadashi vrat satsang and kirtans acquired and then he will let him go free.

Well the vaishnav flatly refused and was willing to be eaten up but the Demon again requested to give only 50% Merit but the vaishnav still refused so he requested only minor credit of the MERIT he has acquired at the Ekadashi vrat satsang the vaishnav refused and immediately there were words spoken from the sky (Akashwani) requesting that he give him only very minor portion of his Merit to the Demon so he can be relieved from that body of pain and sufferings and you being a vaishnav should have a pity on this Demon.(Raksas)

So the vaishnav agreed and immediately he put some water in his palm and took the oath and he put the water on the body of the Demon and immediately the body of Raksas collapsed and fell down and died, the planes came from heaven to pick up the Demons body.The body was now turned pure he got up and did parikrama of the vaishnav and sat in the plane and departed towards heaven. This all happened by donating only very minor portion of his Merit. So one can imagine how powerful is the full Merit of Ekadashi vrat satsang.

So this proves that MERIT can be transfered even partially or fully if a bhagwadia wants to transfer his MERIT.

Also there is one more varta I think it is of Prabhudas Jalota who gave MUKTI in exchange of small portion of Curd to a lady who had no merits to her credit so she was given MUKTI because of bhagwadias MERITS who could have even given BHAKTI if she would have asked for it.
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"Shri Vallabh Shri Vithal Sukh-kari naa-me nishpap thai nur-nari,
------Nitya Lila nitya nautam shruti na pame par."----
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Prashant
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Jai Shree Gokulesh,
Thank you Vasantji for the story. The story does conclude that merits can be transfered. I would further like to think this out without agreeing or disagreeing with you.

I have few questions in my mind. I will talk this out loud so you all can jump in to my rescue. When I was in college I always wished after every examination results that marks should be transferrable. There would always be time that some one in our group would pass with flying colors while some would fail by couple marks. We were very close friends and always wished for an arrangement where the one who passed with good marks can transfer couple marks to the one who failed. We all wished that. But fortunately or unfortunately no university in the world allows this. After every exam all we could do is wish for this to happen but it never happened.

If I apply the same analogy to karma than transfer of karma's merit sounds impossible. Even when I think of the analogy that I mentioned earlier about some one eating the food and digesting for other would force me to conclude that merit cannot be transferred.

But still if I have to believe the above story narrated by Vasantji than does our shastra say about how can one transfer the merits of karma? Is there any procedure that a normal person can follow?

Further, I think that if merits of karma can be transfered than there would be less people suffereing in this world. What do you all think???
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Jai Shri Gokulesh,

Prashantji your story only reveals that one is trying to give away what one does not need. If one reads the shiksha patra Shri Hariraiji has clearly mentioned that Shri Gusainji has revealed that in this kal jug (Human beings are Dusht) They only think about themselves and think they are doing good by donating what they do not need.

In your case if you want to help your friend first give him a choise that whether he prefers 20 to say 90% of your excess marks or he prefers 20 to 90% of your wealth.

Also by giving him marks you are not favoring him in any way cause if he is dumb he will fail interviews and not even qualify for a job but with money he can start his own business and be successful.

Eg. There are many people in Japan, USA when they buy new cars they have to get rid of their old cars as it costs them to recycle old ones like with 150k miles and broken transmission they give as donations why? cause they get tax right off plus they giving away junk and then they tell others they donated car to someone.
Why they not giving away new car as donation??? OR atleast let the person they are donating to decide which car he wants from his collection.

Also think one does not need extra marks more then the passing range so want to donate which is useless to them. Now think one needs only maybe 40 or 50 dollars to live a day would now one give away all his balance wealth??? (If no then why No?) People have 4 TV's in their house, some may own apartment buildings why not give away apartments for free to the people who need them or maybe even to their close relatives and friends who need them.

If 10 friends want to help their friend pass so instead of giving him some marks each why dont evevyone give 10 to 50% of their wealth and make him rich and happy for ever.

There was a similar prasang when Shri Gusainji met the hermit who requested Shri Gusainji that if he is a saint why he keep the possessions must give away everything and Shri Gusainji did exactly the same to prove Himself and when he requested the hermit to give now what he has he flatly refused saying he is worried about tomorrow also how will he drink and eat and he wants to live so cannot sacrifice all.

Hope this answers your question. Always ask others what they need not give what we do not need or give somehthing that we know is impossible or try to donate something we do not own or say if I can get a lottery then I will share with you half of my wealth. Give what you own and which is transferable and must have a value and must be new preferably the one you love the most and like to keep with you.

Re merits of Karma yes they can be transfered but may be not all can qualify or can do it, only few the chosen ones who have Krupa of Shri Thakurji. will leave it open for discussions from other vaishnavs.
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"Shri Vallabh Shri Vithal Sukh-kari naa-me nishpap thai nur-nari,
------Nitya Lila nitya nautam shruti na pame par."----
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Prashant
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Jai Shree Gokulesh,
Very well said Vasantji. We usually donate whatever we have in access. This definitely requires some thought process on why we do so......This inspires me to think on what happens behind the scenes when we donate Smile. More under that topic.....

In the above scenario what if I am the last person to get an admission into medical college and a friend of mine is short of couple marks to get an admission and there are few people between him and me. I know that it is very important that he gets into medical college due to various reasons and I am ready to sacrifice my seat for him. Can I request the board to give him the admission instead of me? Is this possible?

I do not agree or deny that merits of karma can be transferred. But if it can be transferred than what is the procedure. There must be some procedure or some rules defined for it. Anyone??? If we do not know than we should try and ask some Vallabhkul balak if some one can get in touch with them. If anyone here knows than please do share with us.

I really liked your line of thinking on donation, Vasantji....
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai jai shri gokulesh

Pavita agiyaras ki khub khub badhai...


पवित्रा श्री विट्ठलेश पहरावे।
व्रज नरेश गिरिधरन चंद्र को निरख निरख सचु पावे॥१॥

आसपास युवतिजन ठाडी हरखित मंगल गावे।
गोविंद प्रभु पर सकल देवता कुसुमांजलि बरखावे ॥२॥

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shree Krishna,

Khub Khub vadhai to all vallah vaishnavs


JSK

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shri Krishna/Jai Jai Shri Gokulesh,

Khoob Hardik Badhais for the Pavitra Utsavs
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shri Krishna,

Hardik vadai to all vallabhi vaishnavs on Pavitra Utsav.
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------Nitya Lila nitya nautam shruti na pame par."----
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shri Krishna to all vaishnavs on Pavitra Utsav.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shri Krishna/Jai Jai Shri Gokulesh,

Badai to all pyara vaishnavs on Pavitra Ekadashi Utsav.
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Mero to Aadhar Shri Vallabh ke Charnarvind
Mere gale ko haar Shri Vallabh ke Charnarvind
Mero to shinghar Shri Vithal ke Charnarvind
Ga-o Varamvar Shri Vallabh ke Charnarvind Shri Vithal ke Charnarvind --------!!!!!!!
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shri Krishna

Pavitra Pahirat Vitthalnath
Sundar Shubh Paat ke rache hai
Saato balak saath

...

Badhais for today's Pavitra/Misri Baaras
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shree Krishna

Badhai to all

JSK
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