Krishna Seva Forum Index Krishna Seva
Krishna seva sada kariya(Always serve Lord Krishna)
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Krushnasevaparam
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Krishna Seva Forum Index -> Satsang
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Pushtidas
Tibari Star
Tibari Star


Joined: 10 Oct 2005
Posts: 624
Location: United Kindom

PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:03 am    Post subject: Krushnasevaparam Reply with quote

Jai Shree Krishna

Who wrote these lines and why?

Quote:
Krushnasevaparam vikshaya dambhadi rahit naram |
Shree Bhagvat tatvagnam bhajed jignasura darat ||
-Tatvanibandh grantha


Clue:
This is easy if you know who wrote Tatvanibandh Granth and why did He write this sloka. He talks about four characters in man, what are these characters and why these character important and on what ground? If you can answer these questions then you will quickly guess what this sloka depicts and who wrote it. Hehehe. Palna ji easy, hey? Sital ji, Unnatiji all is revealed when you answer the clue.

_________________
Dasa nu das
Pushtidas
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
palna
CEO


Joined: 04 Nov 2005
Posts: 241
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shree Krishna,
Yes Pushtidasji, it is difficult, im sure though Unnatiji and Sitalji along with other knowledgable vaishnavs know the answer. Just to add, i had a look at an online Sanskrit dictionary and these are the words i found so... is the granth explaining and depicting a bhavik vaishnavs desire to know about Thakorji's seva and this granth depicts the principle truth??? (wild guess but hey.... a girls gotta try!)
Tattva
तत्व
Principle; truth
Jignāsā
जिज्ञासा
Desire to know
JSK
_________________
Prem Bandhan Ajab Gajab, Brahmaganth sami aa ganth, na tutai na chutai

Palna na Koti Koti Jai Shree Krishna
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
Pushtidas
Tibari Star
Tibari Star


Joined: 10 Oct 2005
Posts: 624
Location: United Kindom

PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shree Krishna

Well tried Palnaji. I am sorry to say that you have not captured the sloka's meaning.

Well here is the meaning:

The person who gives diksha (Brahmasambandh) should be "naram", that is, man. He should be encoraging and also is doing Krishna seva. He should not have dambh (aham), kaam (lust), lobh (miser) and is not looking for publicity. He should be knowledgeable about Shreemad Bhagvat.

When one sees these four elements in a person, then, that person is able to be a Diksha Guru and is capable of giving Brahmasambandh.

Now can you deduce the four characters in a Guru, from the above mentioned slokas?
_________________
Dasa nu das
Pushtidas
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Nirupa
Tibari Star
Tibari Star


Joined: 06 Nov 2005
Posts: 140
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shree Krishna

I am only guessing. I think Shree Mahaprabhuji wrote the sloka. Explaining that one should look 4 qualities in a guru before accepting Brahmasambandh. The guru should be a man, doing Krishna seva, has knowledge in Shreemad Bhagvat and does not dambh, kaam and lobh.

As Palnaji said........'wild guess but hey.... a girls gotta try!' hehehe.

I am sure the answer is much deeper. Is that right Pushtidasji?
_________________
Jai Shree Krishna
Darshan Abhilasi
Nirupa
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
unnati
CEO


Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 423
Location: Mumbai India

PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai jai shri gokulesh

It is written by Shri Vallabhacharyaji.

The four characters in a Guru are:-

1) He should have the scriptural knowledge of the sect.

2) Does he lives accordingly as said in the scriptures of the sect.

3) Is he capable of teaching the soul, clarifying his doubt and eager to teach the soul.

4) He should not follow the vile path to earn a prestige.

I may be wrong. Please feel free to correct me.
_________________
Shri Vallabha Charan Vina Sharan Koni Jaou.....Shri Vitthala Nam Vina Mantra Kya Thi Paou......Shri Vallabha Charan Vina Sharan Koni Jaou.....
Unnati M. Kadakia
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Pushtidas
Tibari Star
Tibari Star


Joined: 10 Oct 2005
Posts: 624
Location: United Kindom

PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shree Krishna

Thank you Nirupaji and Unnatiji.

Well done both of you. These sloka was written by Shree Vallabh in in a Granth called Tatavarthdeepnibandh. These sloka is about the quality in Guru. Aapshree wrote about four characters of Guru and according to the stanza they are:

    1. Krushnaseva parayanata (Teach seva of Krishna and also do seva personally)
    2. Dambharahit (live according to Veda and Puran's scriptures)
    3. Shree Bhagvat tatvagnata (Scripture, Shree Bhagvat Knowledge)
    4. Naratva (the Guru Should be man, Naratva=nar=male)

Now can anyone elaborate on these four characters depicted in the sloka?
_________________
Dasa nu das
Pushtidas
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Pushtidas
Tibari Star
Tibari Star


Joined: 10 Oct 2005
Posts: 624
Location: United Kindom

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Krushnasevaparam vikshaya dambhadi rahit naram |
Shree Bhagvat tatvagnam bhajed jignasura darat ||
-Tatvanibandh grantha


1. Krushna seva parayanta:

Shree Vallabh has elaborated on these four characters. The first one is Krushna seva parayanta.

Any Guru who gives advice on Krishna seva, and believes that Krushna seva is uttam (the best) then he should be doing seva himself as well. So the first character of Diksha Guru is that he should be ardent follower of Krishna seva and does the seva of Krishna.

So it seems that Mahaprabhuji is elaborating on acharan (in practice) of Guru, which means, a Guru must practice what he preaches. The Guru who preaches but then does not practice what he teaches, in that situation he will not be able to make any impact on any of his disciples.

2. Dambhadi rahitata:

On this characteristic of a Guru, Shree Vallabh's thoughts are very clear and straight forward. Aapshree elaborated on Krishna seva and added that although we accept the Guru, who does Krishna seva and also preaches his disciples the same, but he only does seva for the sake of doing and this chore becomes a simple deed to show off against his disciples, an outer (Bahiya dekhava) look, just to make name and money, and with this he should not follow the vile path to earn a prestige. A guru should be free of all these, above mentioned vile, which hinders one's spiritual path.

3. Bhagvat Tatva agnanta:

The person, who is expert or atleast knowledgeable on Bhagvat Tatva, all the Purans and Veda's knowledge depicting the Bhagvat tatva, is the one to be a Guru.

Again, Shree Vallabh mentioned the Krushna seva when elaborating on this characteristic of Guru. The Guru should be able to follow Krishna seva according to the manuscript of Shree Bhagvatji and similar Granth. This indices of seva when followed according to the scriptures, then it is said to be the seva which will entail param Falam, the ultimate attributes of seva and its entailed result that takes to fore most achievement Falam of acquiring Thakorji. Whilst in seva one does not bring the material diction in seva which hinders ones concentration. And Guru should be able to acknowledge all the best element of seva indices which then demonstrated in his practice. He should be able to declare all the Bhava in the seva and its renderings and achievements. So a guru should be expert on Bhagvat tatva Gyan to explain all the above dictions of seva.

4. Naratva:

On this Shree Prabhucharan Gusainji when writing on "Shree Sarvottam Stotra" wrote:

Quote:
|| Bhavi Bhakti Prachareka Krute swanavaykrut pita ||


Explanation:
To maintain the continuity of Pushtimarg shree Vallabh (my father) enhanced and produced the family.

Now Shree Gusainji cleverly transits from above explanation to the "Naratva" concept. In his foresight regarding Guru, Aapshree suggests that as Mahaprabhuji was ardent lover of Krishna seva, he was following with penance the indices of Krishna seva with no dambha, kaam or any vile ever sipped into his life style. Shree Vallabh was connoisseurs of Shreemad Bhagvad ji. And as His family continued these traditions, they are classified as "Vallabh Kul" and Vallabh Kul becomes qualified to give Guru Diksha.

Although Shree Gusainji agreed that whole Vallabh Kul Parivar, that includes women, are qualified to give Diksha, but Shree Mahaprabhuji in the sloka used "Naratva, so only men are qualified under this concept. This is very clearly explained by Shree Gusainji Param Dayalve.

Only Nara, means only man can give Guru Diksha. Now what if Vallabh Parivar did not have the above characters? Can they be Guru? Can we accept Diksha from the Vallabh because they are Shree Vallabh's off springs and they do not infuse the four characteristics?
_________________
Dasa nu das
Pushtidas
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Sunita Punjabi
CEO


Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Posts: 269
Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shri Krishna,

Very nicely ellaborated thanks Pushtidasji.

The question you have put in the end is little sensitive so I will wait for others to step in and reply first. Laughing
_________________
Sunita Punjabi

Mero to Aadhar Shri Vallabh ke Charnarvind
Mere gale ko haar Shri Vallabh ke Charnarvind
Mero to shinghar Shri Vithal ke Charnarvind
Ga-o Varamvar Shri Vallabh ke Charnarvind Shri Vithal ke Charnarvind --------!!!!!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Pushtidas
Tibari Star
Tibari Star


Joined: 10 Oct 2005
Posts: 624
Location: United Kindom

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shree Krishna

To be honest, these questions are very sensitive and even I would not dare to answer. So I am not expecting anyone to answer. But these are thoughts raised by one of the Balak who in His vachnamrut raised these question. Aapshree was very blunt about the issue and none of the present vaishnavs answered. These vachnamrut were done in a private consultation and there were only few vaishnavs who were present.
_________________
Dasa nu das
Pushtidas
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
unnati
CEO


Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 423
Location: Mumbai India

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai jai shri gokulesh

Pustidasji, very beautifully explained all the 4 characters of guru.
_________________
Shri Vallabha Charan Vina Sharan Koni Jaou.....Shri Vitthala Nam Vina Mantra Kya Thi Paou......Shri Vallabha Charan Vina Sharan Koni Jaou.....
Unnati M. Kadakia
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Sital
CEO


Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Posts: 478
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shree Krishna

This is a very interesting topic Pusthidasji. I personally think that it is very important for a guru to have these qualities as Mahaprabuji is the Jagad Guru who has specifically written about the necessary characteristics a guru should possess. A guru is very important, in the end he is the one who can guide us to our destination. According to the scriptures it is vital to have a guru and without one youíre classified as naked.

We are all following Mahaprabujiís teachings in the Path of Grace so we should adhere to all the siddhants written by him. So in theory we should not accept Diksha from a guru who doesnít have these characteristics. However, when Vallabh Kul na Balak give diksha mantra they use Mahaprabujiís name rather than their own so in effect we have actually received Brahmasaband from Mahaprabuji. If we see Mahaprabuji as our guru and read all his works and follow seva instruction as he has specified then I donít think it is a problem.

JSK
_________________
Madhurkomalkant padavali namami
Sital
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Pushtidas
Tibari Star
Tibari Star


Joined: 10 Oct 2005
Posts: 624
Location: United Kindom

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shree Krishna.

Well said Sitalji, that is, the angle which makes our Pushtimarg stronger on Guru's Dwaar.

In one of the sloka of Mangla charan, we have characteristic of a Guru:

"Gyananjana Salakiya"

That means a Guru who gives Gyan to his disciples and shows the light at the end of the tunnel, literary it means with a small eyebrow type knowledge stick, Guru sets a mascara of knowledge which destroys the dark element and destitute toward light, knowledge which throws light and we are no more in dark.

In Taitariya Upanishad, a real bridge which binds Acharya (Guru) and Antevasi (disciples) is Sanidhi Vidhya. Sanidhi is face to face Vidhya is education. This Bridge will connect Acharya and Antevasi and the bond can be further developed by adhiyapan (to indulge in study and education). So Guru's foremost duty is to educate and the disciples' duty is to get educated.

In Samrutichandrika (grantha) Vishistha rushi and Yam rushis have maintained that a Guru who does not educate their disciples after giving Diksha, is not considered to carry out Shastra rituals and thus does not constitute as Guru. It also depicts that after a year, that is after Diksha, a disciples has not been educated by his/her guru, then all sin which has been instigated during that period will be transferred to Guru. This is really a very harsh rule.
And this has been also described by "Gautamdharmasutra". These are the following observation in this Grantha:

1. If Guru is agna ni (not knowledgeable) or has knowledge but
2. Do not teach his disciples or
3. does not following the Vedic rituals and is indulging in sinful deeds.

Then the advise is to steer away from this Gurus and do not take Diksha from them

What to do if we do not find the four characters in Guru?

For instance if we have not found the right person to make Guru, or for some reason the person had to discard his/her Guru, then what? Does it mean one should not enter in lovely Pushtimarg which Shree Vallabh has set for us? Does it mean we have to go away from such an opportunity?

Well, thank God for "Nibandh Grantha". The answer to above questions is revealed in this Granth, and Shree Purshottam ji in writing about the Nibandh Granth, wrote the following in his Tikka called "Avran bhanga":

Purshottam ji's Tikka:

If one cannot see these four characteristics in Vallabh Balak, then in that case, one should take Shree Mahaprabhuji as his/her Guru. This is because Shree Vallabh is Jagat Guru and instigator of Marg and all the Vallabh Balak takes this into their stride by giving Shree Vallabh's Kani that is on behalf of Shree Vallabh.

Well the above solution is of looking at Shree Vallabh as Guru, but then the question is of one's education by Guru. What is the situation in this case?

Shree Purshottam ji also addresses this in his Tikka. If you can find a vaishnav who is already indulging in Krishna seva and has been in it for sometime, then one should try to learn through this Vaishnava.

Shree Hariraiji's Tikka:

Shree Hariraiji in His "Sevamargiya-sharan-samarpan-sevadi-nirupanam" Grantha explains:

Any Vallabh Balak in this modern age does not follow Shree Vallabh's Sidhant, and does not have all four characters depicted by Shree Vallabh then take care. Aapshree also said that the seva is done with three elements, Tanuja, Vittja and Mansi. If all three elements are not instigated as Shree Vallabh's principles in Pushti seva, then one must not accept this concept as Guru Concept.
_________________
Dasa nu das
Pushtidas
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
unnati
CEO


Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 423
Location: Mumbai India

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai jai shri gokulesh

Pustidasji, Thanx for the beautiful explanation.
_________________
Shri Vallabha Charan Vina Sharan Koni Jaou.....Shri Vitthala Nam Vina Mantra Kya Thi Paou......Shri Vallabha Charan Vina Sharan Koni Jaou.....
Unnati M. Kadakia
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Sunita Punjabi
CEO


Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Posts: 269
Location: USA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shri Krishna,

Just a thougt recently have heard (and not lets name any vallabhkul balaks but) some balaks have stopped giving Brahmasamband to those who do not want to do seva of thakurji after being initiated with brahmasamband so should this be the correct way ?
_________________
Sunita Punjabi

Mero to Aadhar Shri Vallabh ke Charnarvind
Mere gale ko haar Shri Vallabh ke Charnarvind
Mero to shinghar Shri Vithal ke Charnarvind
Ga-o Varamvar Shri Vallabh ke Charnarvind Shri Vithal ke Charnarvind --------!!!!!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Pushtidas
Tibari Star
Tibari Star


Joined: 10 Oct 2005
Posts: 624
Location: United Kindom

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shree Krishna

Let me first congratulate you Sunitaji for reaching over one hundred postings. Well done.

Sunitaji, you asked:

Quote:
Just a thougt recently have heard (and not lets name any vallabhkul balaks but) some balaks have stopped giving Brahmasamband to those who do not want to do seva of thakurji after being initiated with brahmasamband so should this be the correct way ?


Yes I have also heard the same. Let us look at the reason or the understanding behind why these Vallabhkul Balak or Balaks have taken this stand.

Thakorji has created Pushti Jiva to do His seva and to remove that "MAYA" of worldly attachments, so that the Jiva gets imbibed into His form (swaroop) seva, He invited Shree Mahaprabhuji on Bhutal and gave agiya to find these Pushti souls (Jiva) and also asked him to create Pushtimarg.

So one thing is sure that the Path of Grace was created only for Pushti Jiva and Shree Thakorji has bestowed His Grace upon these souls through Shree Mahaprabhuji.

Shree Purshottam ji when writing His teeka on Sidhantrahashiya (one of the Grantha written by Shree Vallabh), has touched this subject. Here is the translation of His teeka:

The Souls who were with Shree Thakorji in (Prabhu na dham ma), and for some reasons these souls (Pushti-Jiva) had to take birth on Bhutal (earth), and these souls were enticed in Maya on earth (material world), forgot their original form (swaroop of Pushti Jiva). These are the souls who have adhikar (right) to enter into Pushtimarg. To initiate these souls into Path of Grace, a Jiva (soul) has to take Guru Diksha (to be baptised) in the form of Brahmasambandh. The ardent Pushti soul's sins are automatically repented by the Diksha but there are many souls who do not achieve this state, even after taking Brahmasambandh.

So with His (Shree Vallabh's) grace the Jiva after Diksha has been initiated seva, and it is the seva which takes the mode of salvation to Liberation and then to the Param Falam, and this is how these souls are directed on the right path to their actual destination. These are the souls who must be given Diksha and they are Adhikari Jiva (soul) to get connected to Brahm (Thakorji).


So from the above transcription, we can deduce that only the Soul which are original Pushti Souls are initiated in this Path of Grace, these are the souls who have to have Sambandh with Brahm, hence Brahmasambandh. And because of this underlying understanding in Pushtimarg, some Vallabhkul Balaks have opted out and do not initiate Diksha Mantra to none Pushti or non Adhikari souls.

I hope this will give everyone an idea that why we have to be very clear in our mind before taking Guru Diksha, or receive Diksha from Guru. It is said that a Guru has to suffer a lot when his disciples indulge in sins, and it is one of the reasons why some Balaks are adamant to initiate Diksha in Pushtimarg.

So how does one recognise a Pushti Jiva (Pushti Soul)?
_________________
Dasa nu das
Pushtidas
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Krishna Seva Forum Index -> Satsang All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group