Krishna Seva

[vallabhdas]

Jai Sri Krishna,

The question is quite critical for one who is on crossroads and has to decide whether he should take refuge in Krishna or not. He may doubt on whether Krishna is really trustworthy or not.

On one hand, scriptures say that Thakorji is “Satyapratigya” and would never lie….Thakorji has said that one who surrenders to me, shall not worry about anything else. Once taken in my refuge, I shall not leave him……

On the other hand are the concepts of “Kartum, Akartum and Anyatha Kartum” and “Nijechhatah Karishyati” which says that Thakorji can do whatever is/can be/should be done(Kartum),He can also do what cannot be expected from HIM (Akartum) and HE can revert/undo whatever HE has done (Anyatha Kartum). To be precise, HE can do whatever HE wishes to do. HE does what HE feels like doing – Nijechhataha Karishyati (Nij-His own, iccha-wish, Karishyati-does). HE is not governed by any law or principles, not confined to anything specific or limited. HE is unlimited.

He has created the universe and thus the concepts of Truth and Lie… These concepts cannot bind him. These are only for material beings-jeev. That means that He can very well lie….. He is capable of doing anything…

So can we trust Him and surrender to Him? Once we surrender to Him, what if after some time He gets bored of us and leaves us? Obviously He can do anything. He has created this universe for His play and entertainment. So if He gets bored with one toy, He can throw it away…. Who can stop Him?He may say a thousand things but than backout on what He has said…. He is Nijechhataha Karishyati…(remember?)

Logically this statement holds true…. Doesn’t it?

Thus we see that both the concepts are contradictory……

So…what’s the answer to the question?
_________________
Sri Vallabh, kab tum kahoge yeh jeev hamare....?
-Vallabhdas

[Vasant Punjabi]

Jai Shri Krishna,

As explained by our Shri Mahaprabhuji and Shri Vithalnathji Our Shri Thakurji will never think bad or go wrong with his bhaktas(Devotees).

Example if one has read the story of Shri Naradji that he wished to get married so Shri Krishna had to lie to save him from getting materialistic. Shri Naradji was very upset at first and then he realised what ever happened was for his good.

There are many such good examples which proves that Shri Thakurji will always do good to his BHAKTA. It may be painfull to the bhakta at first but then he will realise that Shri Thakurji infact protected him from calamities.
_________________
Vasant Punjabi.

"Shri Vallabh Shri Vithal Sukh-kari naa-me nishpap thai nur-nari,
------Nitya Lila nitya nautam shruti na pame par."----

[Dattubhai]

JAY SHRI KRISHNA.
I agree with Vasantbhai.
I would like to add Shri Thakurji is Bhaktvatsal and Staypriya.
Kartum,Akrtum and Anyathakartum do not mean cotradict .He can do what is good for his Bhakta by any means.
I will say I have full faith and I am under His Sharan. from my experience throgh out sixty years He has done whatever is good for me.
Dattubhai Purohit
_________________
Jay Shri Krishna.

[Sital]

Jai Shree Krishna


Welcome to Krishnaseva Tibari Vallabhdasji, what a question, my mind is buzzing with many answers. I’ll write down a few and hope others will also participate.

EKOHUM BAHUSHYAM

Shastra also explains that Shree Krishna was one and became many, souls are parts and parcels of Shree Krishna. All souls are created directly or indirectly from his Shree Ang (Body). So in theory there is nothing else but Shree Krishna, he resides within everybody, be it a tree, flower, animal or Human being. To create a play he gave everybody different identities and free will.

Without his grace we would not be able to talk, walk, speak and carry out all the other various activities, which prior to Brahmasambandh is used for our own benefit. Initially this energy was given to us by Him to utilise in His seva. Using this energy for its right purpose would fill all empty spaces in life and make living worthwhile.

Brahmaji created the earthly body, which diminishes within time, its Thakorji who created the eternal soul for the body, He himself resides within the soul. There would simple be no soul if Thakorji did not exist within.

How can you not trust the one entity that loves you eternally, is within you, in your surroundings and all other entities, loves you unconditionally, always with you in good times or bad? Is there anybody in this world who has always and eternally been there for you and never ever hurt you?

Yes, Thakorji is all-powerful and unlimited, and can do whatever he likes; at the same time he is also Bhakto Adheen. Where there is bhakti there is Bhagwan and vice versa. Thakorji’s is the ocean and the waves are his Bhakto, can these co-exist without each other?

Where in the scriptures is it written that Thakorji has ever been selfish and lied for His own benefit? I cannot recall any prasang where he has been anything else but graceful. Granting evil demond like Kans and Putna Moksh, only god can accomplish. God who does not even leave demons for a single second, would that same God leave his beloved devotees who reside in his Heart? Could you live without your heart?

His white lies and Viruddha Bhash activities have always been for the benefit of other. If you analyse the stories, which took place in Vrindavavan, it will become apparent that they were all different ways to bestow Krupa on Vrajvasi’s. There he lied, stole, cheated in a positive way where he entertained the whole town. The gopi’s used to leave their Makhan pots visible on purpose so that it would be easier for Kanha to steal.

Its in this material world we become contaminated with Kalyug and Maya, Thakorji is not bound by material nature, hence all of his activities are spiritually positive and for the benefit of others.

Why would he discard a part of his Shree Ang? Would anybody cut of their finger, toes or piece of heart and say I am bored of you and don’t need your function?

Also I don't think Boredom is relevant when he is Unlimited and instigator of all leela’s. His games are eternal, not monotonous or repetitive

Dear vaishnavs, please do participate and voice your opinions. I do apologise if I have written anything out of the contrary and be grateful if others could correct or elaborate

JSK
_________________
Madhurkomalkant padavali namami
Sital

[vallabhdas]

Jai Sri Krishna,

Yes all the opinions are true... No doubt.....Thats absolute

I am sharing the very limited knowlegde that I have with His grace. Plz correct me for any misconceptions that I may have....

My explaination for the answer....

The answer to the question lies in the concept of “Virrudha Dharmashray” or "Viruddh Bhash" as Sitalji has very nicely explained. Thakorji is Virrudh Dharmashraya, which means that he is/can be/possesses opposites at the same time. HE is formless, at the same time he can assume a form. HE is unlimited, vast, the entire creation is part of HIM, and at the same time HE can be a minuscule atom. He can be a small helpless child for Yashoda maiyya and at the same time he can kill Pootna or even do Ras Daan (Madhurya Ras) to Gopis. That’s what we call “Virrudha Dharmashray”. (The concept is difficult to understand…I accept…but that’s the beauty of Him…He is understandable yet…so ununderstandable…….again…..Virrudha Dharmashray)

So according to this law, He is Truth Speaker and at the same time a Liar….

So when does He lie and when does He speak the truth?

Try to understand the subtleness of the concept…..

Wherever, He has given promise to Sri Acharyaji, He cannot backout. Whatever He says to Acharyaji, that holds true and He can be trusted on that. He has promised Acharyaji that whosoever surrenders to Him via brahmasambandh, He shall not leave him. In fact He has also proved this. We can find the proff in 84 Vaishnav Vaartas. The story of Narayandas Kayasth (....I believe…Plz correct me if I am worng).

He can definitely lie or backout if He wishes...whether He does it or not is something different. The question is "can he?" So the answer is He can...but he won't leave us since He has promised Mahaprabhuji.

That is probably what we call as the "Med of Mahaprabhuji"

(Maybe for some Non-Pushtimargiya jeev, he can leave him after accepting... )

So we need not worry on that. If we surrender to Him by means of Brahmasambandh, He shall never leave us. He is always there for us. He shall always keep the promise given to Mahaprabhuji…..

(But something worth thinking and asking ourselves is that are we fully keeping our promise.....that we have given during Brahmasambandh? )
_________________
Sri Vallabh, kab tum kahoge yeh jeev hamare....?
-Vallabhdas

[Prashant]

Jai Shree Krishna,

Nice question and equally good replies. But I fail to understand couple things.

Sitalji wrote:

[kavita]

jai sri krishna dear vaishnavs.

surrender unto gods lotus feet is excellent. we should have full trust in charan of shri mahaprbhuji.

our brahma sambandh diksha tells us to sarva vastu samarpanam.

we will be releaved from every worry we have. sri krishna is there with us all the time. please dont leave his lotus feet at any time. or else we will be in trouble.
_________________
Jai Shree Krishna
Kavita Bhatia

[vallabhdas]

Jai Sri Krishna,

Yes Prashantji, technically the statement is right. I too feel the same. When He is capable, He can....

Its also true, no doubt that He wont.........a promise that He has made to Himself (There is no difference between Thakorji and Mahaprabhuji). But I am not able to get the proof as to why He wont......

I could prove that He can... but I am not able to get satisfatory proof of "He wont"

Dear Vaishnavs, please help.....Sitalji......Pushtidasji......Unnatiji........help !



(There is something that I wish to declare. Let no vaishnav take the discussion in a negative way that we are distrusting Thakorji and hence this question and the discussion..... No ! not at all. We fully have faith in Thakorji. Its just that we are trying to prove it logically....

Just like we all know 0 = 0. But mathematicians like to prove things. So they do some calculations and play about with theorms and laws to just prove it. Same is the case here. I again request all vaishnavs not to interpret the discussion wrongly.....)
_________________
Sri Vallabh, kab tum kahoge yeh jeev hamare....?
-Vallabhdas

[vallabhdas]

Jai Sri Krishna,

Sorry I forgot to comment on the fisrt doubt on Prashantji, that he pointed out from Sitalji's quote.....

A good one Prashantji....u have pointed out a good one.....

This kind of exercise is important.... I was once reading a book by Rameshbhai Parikh... There in the preface he points out the present day situation.... He says that we dont see the kind of vaishnavs like the 84 & 252 nowadays. That is because we dont properly understand Pushtimarg. And why dont we understand? because we dont ask questions. WE have stopped asking questions about Pushtimarg. We just blindly follow what we see....We may fill Jhariji...but we dont know the bhav behind it...It is a pity ....many of us take brahmasanbandh...but we dont know why? we take it just because our parent or grandparent tell us. We do many thinds in seva and our Marg for which we dont know the reasons....this wont lead us anywhere....its just a "Karmkaand" (futile actions).

You get up everyday...wake up Thakorji, bathe Him, do shringar, offer Him bhog, and finally put Him to bed. When asked to a lady, why does she do the seva and why does she do it this particulay way? She said....my mother-in-law has told me to ...and this is the way she used to do and so I do it the same way.....

She doesn't know why ........ wat's the use of such seva? There is no love in the seva..... If she would have understood each aspect of seva and then done it, she would have done things tenderly, with love and with a meaning..... Only then would her seva have served the purpose...

We see our elders going to havelis for darshan and so we also follow them? Have we ever stopped and asked ourselves or others....why do we go to havelis? Like sheeps, we just follow the shephard.....

If in today's time, with lot of scientific temper in us, we accept things only after adequate proofs, then why not the same with our Pushtimarg?

Why do we take things for granted in Pushtimarg?

Why do you think have Mahaprabhuji stressed so much on Satsang?

So I feel...this kind of brainstorming sessions are important to help us truly understanding our Pushtimarg.....

I request all Vaishvans to participate..... especially the senior Vaishnavs...I request you to guide the misguided ones like me with your wisdom and teach me the true meaning of Pushtimarg......
_________________
Sri Vallabh, kab tum kahoge yeh jeev hamare....?
-Vallabhdas

[Nirupa]

Jai Shree Krishna

Very thought provoking questions and answers. Vallabhdasji, I agree that we should understand the aspects of seva of Thakorji and yes we learn through satsang. But I don't agree with the following......

[Sital]

Jai Shree Krishna

Thanks Vallabhdasji for your prompt reply. Thought provoking questions. I am merely a beginner in this path Vallabhdasji, apologies in advance if anything is written out of the contrary.

Please read the quote below which has been taken from the subject: GOPIGEET written by Pusthidasji:

[Inaxi]

Jai Shree Krishna

Well done Vallabhdasji, your question is a provoking question. First of all I must say that before accusing Krishna as a liar, you must establish that he has lied and that lies has harmed everyone. This does not come forth in the posting. Anyway, the question is a pondering one and takes your mind to explore the capacity and ability to understand the character of God.

In Pushtimarg is mostly putting emphasis on Bhava seva, which is to love Thakorji with no condition and total surrendership. Loving with condition is not surrendership and it is definitely not a love that will last.

So this concept denotes that a sevak accepts god in whichever form, character and cribs, and when truly in love, we do not look at the bad qualities in the person, we simply accept that person as he/she is and to the person in love, everything is hunky dory.

With this simplicity, one can come to a conclusion that a sevak who falls in love with God, does not take good, bad and ugly arithmetic and fall for Him, to sevak he is her/his hero, a perfect personification of all good entity. We only look at the bad quality in others and we do not self criticise ourselves with that minute observation, this narrowness in self deduction can be an observant delusion where we see things in the way we want to see. The observation of Krishna lies, are denoted in its lies, for the ground He lies and for the purpose He lies.

I will not go into whether he lied or not, what is useful for my purpose is that when He has been accused of lying it has been in situations where it was for the salvation, and protection of that person. All these games of him perfecting the situation by really bending the truth and we at its face value denote this ‘truth’ as ‘lies’. Most of the time His leelas are very difficult to understand and when we do not comprehend the incomprehensive games He (God) plays we simplify it via a derogative word ‘lies’. So in my understanding and the way I read these leelas my humble opinion is that Lord, or GOD or Bhagwan or Thakorji or not least Krishna, do not lie EVER. Because if we were to believe that God is a liar then what would differentiate us and Him?

This takes us smoothly over to the subject on Virudhabhasha swaroop, this is a much talked about subject. What are we really saying here? I think here, the virudhabhasha means opposite entity, example given in your posting regarding bal Krishna to Yasodaji and Kishore leela to Gopis. This Virudhabhasha is an entity that is connected to His leela swaroop and not his character, so it is incorrect to use this excuse with his character, hence truth against lie.

So vaishnavs for me MY KRISHNA never lies, so there!

Hey Tibari vaishnavs please note that this posting, every letter, every words and every sentence is printed or punched on my keyboard without stealing from Pushtidas. No chori, no lies hehehe…! Anyway Pushtidasji, you can keep your password or write in cryptic ways I didn’t need your notes this time
_________________
Jai Shree Krishna
Aham rasam eva labdhiya anandi bhavati |
Inaxi

[Pushtidas]

Jai Shree Krishna

I have been reading all the replies and Viallabhdasji your reflection on whether God tells the truth or not. Your question is based on certain quotations and some interpretation of words and sloka. As you started with this:

[vallabhdas]

Jai Sri Krishna,

Thank you Pushtidasji !

I was waiting for this kind of explaination. I am eagerly waiting for more .....

Please let us have all that you can explain. No matter how lengthy it becomes.
_________________
Sri Vallabh, kab tum kahoge yeh jeev hamare....?
-Vallabhdas

[Sital]

Jai Shree Krishna,

Wonderful explanation Pusthidasji, look forward to the next posting. Meanwhile I wanted to answer Prasantji's question, hope I don't disturb the flow.